QuadifyRC 124016 124017 EAT14 cogging issue fixThe WL Toys 124016 and 124017 (and the Eachine EAT14) have a major issue with cogging - the stuttering that occurs when accelerating from standstill or low speed and is a major downside to these recent releases. Cogging in your car is not by bad luck but by design choice; in the search for top speed bragging rights, the tall gearing has really compromised these cars ability to accelerate. Never fear, QuadifyRC to the rescue! I'll give you 3 and a bit options on how to fix this issue by addressing the root cause rather than by going on a wild goose chase and addressing the wrong things. Cogging - The Root Cause As soon as I found out WL Toys and Eachine had retained the big 27t pinion from the brushed models I knew they would be fast but were going to be poor on acceleration. This turned out to be correct as you can see on my Eachine EAT14 review which has the same running gear as the 124016 and 124017. You can get away with this big pinion on a brushed motor (like with the 144001, 124018 and 124019) because of the way they work but not on a brushless motor because of the way they differ mechanically. Cogging is when the electromagnetic field invoked by the motor is not strong enough for the motor rotate and catch the next pole thereby getting out of phase and rocking back and forth; it's that jiggle your car make before it takes off. So what causes it? The motor can not generate enough torque for the given load. The 2845 is not a small motor for a car this size so it is safe to assume that it is the load that is unreasonably high due the very tall (fast) gearing. Since we know the root cause we need to address it directly in order to get the best quality solution but before I do that I'll let you know the things that will NOT fix it:
Adding more power with more cells. You'll see I mentioned that the motor didn't have enough power to turn so what if we go up from 2s to 3s to give it more power? Well, you haven't addressed the real issue which is the load, not the motor power. Increasing the power to the motor will make it more likely to spin but it wont fix the cogging and you will more than likely do damage for anything but speed run passes. Cogging Solution So it's clear by now we need to reduce the load on the motor, The drivetrain runs freely so it's not like anything is binding. This leaves us with the gear ratio. As mentioned it's really tall and so dropping the pinion size will resolve this. Easy right? I'm afraid not quite for 2 reasons:
I still have fixes however and will take you through the options based on what you want to spend and what you expect to achieve. Solution 1 - Minimum spend re-using as much as possible. Parts Needed. Here we will reuse all of the electronics and will need to do a small amount of drilling and filing to get a reliable car that performs well at minimum spend. For this we will need:
Installation guide. In addition to the above you'll want a little butane blow torch. These can typically bought for less than $5 and are needed to melt the super strong threadlock that WL toys use. Follow the steps below to remove the motor:
Next we need to use the 144001 motor mount as it has preset holes the align for perfect mesh with the 15t pinion. A little bit of material remove is required to make this fit. Take care in enlarging the pinion bore especially as it is easy to get off centre. I'd recommend ordering at least 2 pinions for this reason as they are cheap but have a long delivery time.
From here do the reverse of what you did earlier, reinstalling the gear shrouds, motor plugs and of course the top deck. It should look almost identical from before but you may notice the the motor now sits inside the car a little further. Performance. Make no mistake, on the same 2s pack this car will be slower, I measured 44km/h with my GPS on stock wheels and just under 50km/h on these wheels. Cogging is completely gone though and you will also have the other benefits:
All these add up to a much better experience for off-road at the cost of some top speed. Clearly this won't help for those of you wanting straight line speed runs but the majority of use want a car that runs equally well on all surfaces and all terrains and 50km/h is still quick for a car this size. If that is unacceptable though you can easily jump up to a 3s battery and hit 70km/h plus quite comfortably. This is well within the thermal envelope of this ESC / motor combo, See below for proof of the cogging fix and how the car performs plus a look at the efficiency this new gear ratio brings.
Solution 2: Easiest Install Parts needed. As I showed in my Drop in brushless upgrade guide for the 144001 / 124018 / 124019 there is a much easier install path but you will need to but another motor. For the additional $10-15 outlay though you will not need to drill, file or cut and in my opinion is well worthwhile
As per the first option you'll need to remove the motor but since you are using a new motor mount, motor, pinion and screws, you can leave that whole assembly intact and set aside.
Installing the motor and other hardware is super easy now since you don't need to bore out the pinion nor the motor mount. From here do the reverse of what you did earlier, reinstalling the gear shrouds, motor plugs and of course the top deck. This motor is the same length as the stock motor but smaller in diameter so should be more roomy. Performance. Although it took a lot less effort to get to this point due to a direct fitting motor the outcome is very similar to option 1. Note: since the gear ratio is a lot more conservative, the smaller 2445 is not really disadvantaged towards the stock 2845 motor. In addition to the same benefits as the option 1 (acceleration, battery life, smoother throttle, less heat), you also get a lighter and more balanced car as a result. Again, a much nice drive over a wide range of surfaces. Top speed on 2s is 50km/h and 3s is 72km/h, you can read more about performance in my 144001 / 124018 / 124019 Drop In Brushless Upgrade Guide here as it is essentially the same setup Solution 2B: Easiest Install, high speed What about the 5400kv 2445 motor? You can of course install this motor as an option too, it is super quick - 78km/h on 2s and 109km/h on 3s as seen in my original drop in brushless upgrade guide. It does run hot thought so would only really consider it for on-road applications. The stock ESC should handle this motor just fine, especially with that great big fan. If you want to see more discussion on 2s vs 3s and different kV options then read this article: RC CAR THEORY: 2S VS. 3S, HIGH KV VS. LOW KV Solution 3: The best no-compromise setup If you want the very best setup in this car and are not afraid to get your hands dirty then the best no-compromise motor I can recommend for this car is a 2838 or 2845 sized brushless motor (like the stock motor) but in a more appropriate kV that suits the 15t pinion better, I recommend around 4500kv if you plan to bash hard or use bigger wheels or around 5000kv if sticking with the stock sized wheels and not pushing your cars on such tough terrain. These motor should net you around 60-70kph and run fairly cool. Below are some recommendations in this size: My Personal Recommendation
So there you have it, 3-4 genuine options to resolve the cogging issue in the 124016, 124017 and EAT14. My personal preference is for the second option (a or b) because it is just so much easier but if you have the tools and patience then do consider option 1 to make use of the stock motor. As I said solution 3 would be the best performing but is the worst combination of money and work required. Before I wrap this up I'll give you a little bonus: my favourite radio options if you wish to upgrade from the barely acceptable range on the stock radio. These directly replace the stock transmitter and receiver:
If you are looking for a discount on this car, I will post any coupon codes or flash sales for it over here on my coupons and discounts page. Remember buying from any of these links supports my page without any cost to you and is appreciated especially since I don't ask for money via patreon and the like. If you want to get involved in this discussion, feel free to join the QuadifyRC Facebook Group Here or like my page below.
74 Comments
GM
27/10/2021 12:36:58 am
Thanks for the guide - very important
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Geoffrey Chan
27/10/2021 05:00:22 am
Option 3 is the same as Option 1, except you're replacing the motor for a higher KV option. It's not hard, just costs more (~$25) to do because of the motor.
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QuadifyRC
27/10/2021 11:09:18 am
As usual Geoffrey's got it right and says it clearer than me! Only reason I don't recommend option 3 more is because it is more expensive because of the extra motor you buy and is more involved to fit than the 2445. There is no doubt this will give you the best performance though.
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Ash
27/10/2021 01:13:48 am
Been waiting for you to upload this and very thankful you have.
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QuadifyRC
27/10/2021 11:07:29 am
Hi Ash, my pleasure. Yep, This is the magical pinion. I've just ordered another 3! Pretty much deciding how you want the car to perform. Because I'm largely lazy I like the 2445 with motor mount but as for the best performance? 2838 5000ish kV if you don't mind getting your hand dirty.
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Ash
27/10/2021 12:38:50 pm
Thanks mate,
Dale
28/8/2022 05:54:06 pm
Hi mate
Tristan
27/10/2021 11:24:31 am
Do any/all these options require change of the bullet connectors between motor and ESC? My understanding is that bullet size changes from 3.5mm to 5mm somewhere around these motor sizes... Is that right?
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QuadifyRC
27/10/2021 12:14:52 pm
All use 3.5mm bullets here so no changes needed
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27/10/2021 12:12:52 pm
Thanks for dropping in at RC Groups and sharing what you found/ did.
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QuadifyRC
27/10/2021 12:15:51 pm
My pleasure buddy, I grew up with forums and even BBS's so haven't forgotten!
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Kodak thinks WLToys are trash
27/10/2021 08:27:06 pm
Kodak you are such a hypocrite. On some forums you have spent countless hours tearing into these models, trying convince everyone they are trash and not to buy them (not hobby grade, just toys).
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QuadifyRC
28/10/2021 10:29:12 am
No need for that here, if your issue is on RC Groups you can discuss that there.
Isaac
28/10/2021 09:12:55 am
Good write-up Quad!
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QuadifyRC
28/10/2021 10:31:52 am
Thanks Isaac.
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Isaac
29/10/2021 12:53:51 pm
Yep, it's not easy, as you've said, finding wheels in this size, as the diameter is not as common as 1/10, and many of the remaining tires are like 25-6mm wide which is too narrow for the rear. Just thought that it would be best to let you know, the more options the better! Who knows, perhaps these grip as good as the Remos! Let's hope that this wheel isn't too weak, as long as it can hold up to medium bashing, that's good enough for me.
vanzeller
29/10/2021 12:46:24 am
I found these new brushless versions very disappointing especially considering the price. Speaking of price, I feel like you should have mentioned that if one is going through all the trouble of replacing the motor, might as well get a super cheap 144001 and do a brushless conversion. It's the same effort and it'll likely end up costing less!
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QuadifyRC
29/10/2021 12:49:54 am
Thanks and I agree. In fact I've already started this exact article to compare cost and performance
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Jeremy
1/11/2021 06:19:13 am
These are all good solutions, but have you tried only changing the ESC from Surpass to Hobbywing? I know that it won't make the motor any bigger or the gearing any lower, but I find that Hobbywing ESCs have much smoother starts. I suspect that just throwing in a 16BL30 is a great option for 2S in these cars, or a 10BL60 or 10BL120 for 3S.
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QuadifyRC
2/11/2021 12:06:05 am
Hobbywing ESCs are definitely smoother but it's kinda papering over this main issue, that being the gearing. A 16BL30 with this gearing would be a bit on the small size, even on 2s
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Domingo
1/11/2021 09:01:32 am
Hello, thank you very much for the guide.
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Domingo
1/11/2021 11:21:03 am
Another question, how would it go in this car or more specifically in the 124017 the 2440 engine with 4000kw and the 15 pinion to run with a car on rc dirt circuits
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QuadifyRC
2/11/2021 12:08:14 am
Probably a little to small. I'd go 2445 3600kv or if you don't mind drilling then something in 2845.
QuadifyRC
2/11/2021 12:07:19 am
Unfortunately never a pinion in this pitch with a 3.2mm shaft smaller than 27t. You can get a 24mm diameter motor that comes with a 2.3mm shaft that fits directly though.
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It seems a big step to go from 27 to 15 teeth. It's going to slow the car down an awful lot.
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marky
1/11/2021 03:03:38 pm
I just ordered the same thing :)
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QuadifyRC
2/11/2021 12:12:41 am
Unfortunately no other spur options. I wish there was something on M0.6
QuadifyRC
2/11/2021 12:11:47 am
Hi Bill. Yep, the 17t is definitely a better option on this motor but didn't mention here because it is a pain in the arse for most to slot a motor. I'd rather buy a motor with a more appropriate kv on sale for around $10 than slot the mount again.
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Bill
21/12/2021 10:13:49 am
Well I received the bits, 17t cog, adjustable mount and carried out the planned mods. Worked out very well. Quite difficult to get the gears to mesh "just right". Not too much play and not excessively meshed. Ended up mounting the motor using 3 mounting screws instead of 2 and used 2 of them to oppose each other when tightening to make small adjustments to to motor position (mesh).
Pablo
3/11/2021 08:53:26 am
Hello from Mexico Quad.
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QuadifyRC
6/11/2021 11:19:46 pm
Hola from NZ Pablo. The mount can fit but needs a lot of shimming, I wouldn't recommend. LC racing uses a more common m0.6 pitch as opposed to these cars which use a very rare M0.7
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Nathan
12/11/2021 12:20:37 pm
Would the combination of the 27t pinion and the 2445 (5400kv for arguments sake) produce cogging? Is it the size of the stock 2845 that is the problem or is it down to the 27t pinion regardless of motor size?
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QuadifyRC
16/11/2021 12:22:17 pm
If it could fit (it won't) that'd be a disaster. It's like taking the issues with the EAT14 and making them worse. It's the 27t pinion that is the issue here.
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nathan
16/11/2021 04:49:55 pm
After re-reading your thread i get it. Thanks for putting up with noob questions like mine.
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QuadifyRC
29/11/2021 04:32:13 pm
No probs, we all start somewhere!
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Yasin
19/11/2021 09:43:26 pm
Too bad the service at banggood is terrible. Do we have another choice to order from? Anything but banggood. When they don't deliver or deliver broken stuff they don't read your warrenty claims, they just stall for time saying it is all good.
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QuadifyRC
29/11/2021 04:33:24 pm
That's a shame, I've had over 300 orders and only once has the wrong thing turned up (which they promptly refunded). Aliexpress is worth a look but you need to research the vendor. Consider makerfire as well but they have less items.
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wolfhusky
21/11/2021 09:27:02 pm
Hi Quadifyrc - and greetings from Germany,
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QuadifyRC
29/11/2021 04:35:48 pm
Hi Jan! Your question is very clear - the issue is the gearing is too tall. The torque on the motor is just fine and that's why the changes I've recommended here all revolved on correcting the gearing.
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Mike
24/11/2021 08:00:34 am
I've seen online that WL Toys have updated the 124017 to come with a 2845 4300KV motor and 19t pinion. And they've apparently modified the TX to improve the range as well. I've just ordered a 124017, and hoping I receive the revised setup.
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GM
24/11/2021 10:11:58 am
Where did you ordered from?
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Mike
25/11/2021 02:06:47 am
I ordered from Banggood. No mention of the revised version on their website (I only became aware of it after I'd ordered). It did say it was a preorder, so that gave me some hope it'd be the latest version, but the tracking also says it's already been shipped. It's the Makerfire website that mentions the revised 124017 specs, and they only have it as a preorder.
Todd Thomas
5/12/2021 09:36:30 am
I order two 124017 from Bangood one on 2021-11-10 and one on 2021-10-18. They both arrived to gather a couple of day ago. I opened one and it had blue motor mounts. I just tried it and there is no cogging on grass.
QuadifyRC
29/11/2021 04:37:23 pm
Yes I saw makerfire announce this but have seen nothing since. I think the 19t with the stock motor would be a good option. 4300kv is better suited to 15 or 17t
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Mike
1/12/2021 02:25:13 pm
Well my 124017 arrived from banggood on the 29/11, and it does seem to have the revised gearing. I've prised open the gear cover and counter the pinion teeth. Not easy to do, but I seem to be counting around 19, but definitely nowhere near 27t. I can't see any markings on the motor to identify what kv it is. Only other thing of note is that mine has a blue motor mounting plate, whereas others I've seen online have a gold motor plate. Don't know if that signifies it's a different size (to accommodate the smaller pinion), or if they've just changed the anodising colour.
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QuadifyRC
10/12/2021 10:55:06 am
You've definitely got the V2 - interesting. That blue motor plate is the easiest tell. Have a fun Christmas with your little man!
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Dogma
5/12/2021 03:13:22 am
Hey.tbanks for your effort trying to help so many people.
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Mike
5/12/2021 09:21:20 am
No, the gearing is too high for a sensorless drive to cope with. Changing ESC won't help.
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QuadifyRC
10/12/2021 10:56:02 am
My pleasure, it's a part of the hobby for me. I've heard having some improvement with an ESC like a 10BL120 but it's not a complete fix and still doesn't address the main issue (gear ratio)
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Jan
5/12/2021 08:22:56 am
I am now following your Solution 2 but with a motor from Solution 3.
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QuadifyRC
10/12/2021 10:51:34 am
I'm afraid a 2845 motor with 2.3mm shaft does not exist. The 2445 is the largest with a 2.3mm shaft other than that random orange 2838 from aliexpress. The combinations here are the ones I recommend and are pretty exhaustive
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Stephane
30/12/2021 09:35:09 am
hello, I don t know much about it.
ade husni
7/12/2021 03:15:30 pm
hii can i install bigger motor? like 3650 4300k? will it fit and what about heat and speed? thankyou
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QuadifyRC
10/12/2021 10:52:40 am
If you want to go for speed runs, sure. I don't like them for any other application because they are unbalanced for weight and tend to heat the car up excessively. Gearing is still not suitable for offroad either.
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Nik
18/12/2021 01:13:54 am
Hi, I have tried your solution with the 2445 racestar motors both 5400kv and the 3600kv with the 15 tooth pinion (ordered from the link in your solution) I am still getting the cogging just as bad as the original motor and pinion from both motors. Am I missing something or have I missed understood?
Dustin Gautreaux
28/12/2021 12:15:57 pm
Hi there, wonderful write up! Quick question. I've ordered the surpass hobby 2845 5000kv. Will this be a simple motor swap or am I looking at drilling new holes in motor mount and drilling out pinion bore? Just want to know what I'm getting into before I break those screws loose. Thank you!
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Berni
6/1/2022 07:27:36 am
Hello, here you have the new 2845 4300 kv motor, with the 19t gear and with the motor support.
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Karl
14/1/2022 03:15:41 am
Hey!
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Stephane
14/1/2022 11:01:00 pm
Hello
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STEPHANE
15/1/2022 04:57:48 am
3100,3200,3400, or 3600kv?
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Diego
20/3/2022 10:53:27 am
Hello, is there any other place other than AliExpress to buy the 15t pinion? Shipping costs are at 43 eur plus product cost
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Martin
12/5/2022 08:11:35 am
My badly cogging and over-fast Eat14 has just had the option 2 treatment and is a much better car for it. Thank you.
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QuadifyRC
12/5/2022 11:28:59 am
Hi Martin
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Great write-up!
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Dale
19/9/2022 08:41:32 am
Hey mate
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QuadifyRC
19/9/2022 12:11:18 pm
Excellent!!
QuadifyRC
19/9/2022 12:10:57 pm
Hi Raphael
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kosmev
16/11/2022 11:25:55 am
Well,.. Why not simply swap the motor for a lower KV one?
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QuadifyRC
28/11/2022 11:01:34 am
Hi Kosmev. Although a lower kV motor should reduce power consumption and give a more practical top speed, it cannot resolve the overly tall gearing and the fact that the ESC is not very smooth.
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Michal
7/1/2023 01:39:54 am
Hi everyone. I used stock moror and mentioned above new motor mount and 15T pinion. After assembling the whole thing pinions are too tight. What am I doing wrong?
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Martin
9/1/2023 03:48:00 am
This happened to me.
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Florian S.
17/4/2023 08:19:11 am
Hi.
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Florian S.
17/4/2023 09:19:03 am
In addition:
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